I’d love to show you photos of all the angles of my new container house now it is on site, but the delightful thing is that most of it is hidden by the garden. Many of the pictures are of trees and shrubs with just a glimpse of container behind. You can see the whole house from the front where the view is, and it’s shown in the banner photo above.
Getting the containers into position while keeping a substantial garden intact was not a simple thing. I reckon I ended up with the best team in the business, both for the truck delivery and the crane. Adam’s team from Turner and Central Crane Services worked miracles to get the containers from the truck to the piers. Fifty tonne cranes don’t look that manoeuvrable but apparently they can turn tight corners quite well if they’re in the right hands, and this one inched it’s way off the driveway, down the little garden path, to a spot half way between the truck and the piers. I think I might be slightly oblivious to just how close we were to the maximum reach of the crane when it hefted the 6 tonne containers over the tree tops, but I’m happy to stay that way. Adam said not to worry they’d get it done, and they did.
Jodi Thompson from J & K Heavy Towing and Transport did some seriously talented driving to reverse the 12m containers down to the bottom of my driveway, with very little room to manoeuvre. A couple of other drivers had visited my site to give me a quote and said it wasn’t possible. Not only was there a blind reverse turn from a very narrow street involved but to add a bit more of a challenge there is a small garden right next to the road, directly opposite my driveway, which was right in the area where the truck needed to swing around. The garden now has large semi-trailer tread marks within 2mm of it, but is otherwise unscathed.
We just had the wettest March since 1975 and then the rain didn’t realise it was April for a while so it kept on going. Delivery day followed the first good break in the weather but the ground was still soft and it’s a good thing we waited as long as we did – the crane only just got back out with the help of a few well-placed solid timber sleepers. I have a bit of landscaping to do to fill in the deep furrows it left in the driveway and path, but that’s a small price to pay.
I am totally chuffed to finally have my house structure tucked away on site, and I can’t wait to get stuck into the rest of the build. I’m also pleased I chose this build method as anything else would have had much more impact on the lovely garden block.
The real fun is about to begin and I am now finally free from dodgy container fabrication companies.
If you read my last post, which was a frustrated vent about the performance of Port Shipping Containers, I have a relatively quick update for you. After some negotiation the Company Directors acknowledged they knew they were in breach of contract and didn’t care, they refused to release my containers until I paid in full. I offered several compromises including 10% payment after delivery (instead of the agreed 20% outlined in our contract), and a third party payment system where the final payment could be held independently until all parties were happy. Then I asked for payment by credit card, as that would give me a bit of protection via the visa charge back system if something was wrong. They said no to everything except payment by EFT, and decided to stay uncompromisingly unethical.
The company did a last quality check for me, where they picked up yet another mistake. We had actually picked this mistake up back in drawing stages and a correction had been identified then, but it was completely ignored during the build stage. They fixed it promptly this time, without arguing which was nice.
Then as a grand finale, as the one tarnish on an otherwise happy day of container delivery, Port had got the position of the bottom side rails wrong. This bit is rather important as the bottom side rails, along with the corner casts, are where the containers sit on the foundations. If they are not where they are supposed to be then the container might miss the foundations.
I checked the position measurements with Port when I was doing the foundations. Their measurements were way out, basically it looks like they didn’t check which type of bottom side rails the containers had and they gave me specs for the wrong type. So I now have a section where the side rail of one container is sitting only on an overhanging steel top plate not directly over a pier and it will have to be reinforced. The incompetence of their staff just never ends.
I am currently looking into whether it is worth the legal fees to try to recover some of my build costs from Port due to the extended delays, plus the cost of fixing the foundation. I’ll certainly be posting some reviews to give people fair warning – if anyone is looking for a container fabrication company I strongly recommend you look elsewhere and find a company capable of using a tape measure, reading the supplied specifications, and sticking to their own contract.
Overall, apart from what is hopefully the very last stuff up by Port containers, it was a very fine day and a great outcome.
Why? Why? Why? People keep asking if the containers are onsite yet, and then why not? Isn’t one main advantage of this build method that it’s quick?
Warning, this post is long and quite painful. Read it at your own risk and expect to come out confused at the end. If you’re not confused and it’s all crystal clear and reasonable please let me know as I could use some of that perspective.
It might be something to do with this flu that’s been doing the rounds, but I feel like I’m floating in parallel universe where rationality and written agreements have no relevance. I’ve been trying to keep a sense of humour with this blog but right now I’m just completely baffled by a constant assault of unreason.
I’ve been trying to organise delivery of my containers since my last post but the guy I’m dealing with at Port Shipping Containers is doing my head in.
This is of course my own personal experience and my opinion and you might have a different experience with Port Shipping Containers, I am just sharing for my own therapy. My recent experience has been with one particular person so it might not represent Port the company. I would rather not write about one person but all my recent dealings have been with one person and I think it’s probably a personality thing so I can’t see a way around it. So to protect them, imagine someone you don’t know, and whose name you’ll never know. To be fair he has copied a lot of other Port people onto his emails who I don’t know and they haven’t piped up in protest so maybe he does represent the company.
You might have seen my post from April last year with a summary of my not-very-positive experiences with various container companies. At the end of last year when the job from Port was looking like it was nearly done I was thinking that in comparison to those other companies the guys at Port Containers were angels wearing some extra halos of radiant professionalism (plus high vis vests and work boots). That impression is now gone.
Right now Port are in breach of contract and I’m hoping someone from their head office is going to help me sort this out because I’ve hit a wall of mind-bending, illogical reasoning and blame. We have an agreed quote that states clearly I will pay the final 20% on delivery. Port wrote the quote and I accepted it. I am calling the parallel universe guy I am dealing with “Port Guy” because if I have to think of another name at the moment it might not be polite. He might be a very nice person to others and at home. He might be being advised by other people in the email trail. He’s the 4th Port person I’ve dealt with on this job. The other Port people were friendly and pleasant to deal with and never accused me of anything. Even Port Guy started out OK.
Anyway the point is that I have an earlier email in Port Guy’s own words that refers to this agreed concept of payment on delivery and states that the “payment 30 days after delivery…gives you piece of mind, that if for some reason there is there is something needing to be done on site by PORT, it will be sorted out for you straight away.” Given everything that has gone wrong with this build so far, I really want that peace of mind.
Suddenly despite that email and our subsequent contract Port Guy is demanding I pay everything right now before he will release my containers for delivery. I might have been able to live with that if I’d had a different experience with this company, one where everything went right and the first quote I got was the only one and the job was delivered in 6 weeks as promised. But the reality has been different. Here is a very quick summary of the job so far, there’s a lot missing it’s just some of the bigger stuff to paint the picture:
1) Various staff members kept re-quoting the job so the final quoted cost was uncertain for 7 months. Yep, 7 months. Two months from one staff member, he left then another 2 months for someone else to do the whole quote again (“why did they have to do that?” you might well ask), then the last three of those months were after I had paid 50% of the deposit because the quote had finally been agreed with Port Guy. I started to pay then it was suddenly up the air again and being re-quoted. At that stage I was pretty worried I had made a mistake and might lose the money I had paid.
2) Since the first quote agreement this job has taken 6 months instead of the promised 6 weeks.
3) There have been significant errors in all stages of the build, including getting order specs for materials wrong and putting windows in the wrong way or in the wrong position. All but one of the errors was picked up by me, not by Port staff.
4) I’ve been told various things by Port staff which have then been denied by other Port staff, and I wasn’t off talking to someone I shouldn’t have these were all people I was passed on to at Port. Some of this has meant I’ve been charged for things I was told would be included. There’s been little accountability within the company. I did keep an email trail on most of it as to me that is written record of agreement, but in this weird universe of Port Guy those emails are all apparently irrelevant or inconclusive.
The current status – Port Guy is trying various tactics to get me to pay more money, preferably the full balance right now. I believe the job has come in at close to cost for Port due to inexperienced staff and the high number of errors in the quote and the job, and I appreciate them fixing them all and sticking to their quote. Having said that, it’s what I’d expect a professional company to do. It’s what the rest of us have to do if we underestimate costs in a quote.
It’s pretty apparent that Port Guy is now desperate to recover some costs. The bit I struggle with is that professionalism appears to have gone out the window and lately he’s been trying to blame mistakes on me. He’s now accusing me of having less than honest motivations. I find that a bit much given my tolerance so far and the track record of this job.
Port Guy utterly refused to correct the last error where a window was in the wrong place and was insisting I pay for it because it was my fault, until eventually just to save more time and my keyboard I had to suggest we get NSW Fair Trading to arbitrate. He was appalled I had suggested that, then he fixed the error at Port’s cost. His view is that since he came onto the job and sorted out all the quote issues everything has been rosy, but he’s been more heavily involved in the job since August 2016 and now we’re in March 2017 and not done yet. I see no roses.
Most recently, after a few months of me trying to get the BCA compliance paperwork for the glazing from Port Guy, which last year Port promised would be supplied, he said he finally had the correct paperwork but he wouldn’t give it to me. Not until I paid in full. Without that paperwork I had no evidence Port had installed the correct glazing (and they’d got the order wrong before), so no evidence the job was completed to my specs. My next payment was supposed to be on job completion. Port Guy finally released the documents after more discussion but it wasn’t easy to get it.
Now his new angle is to blame me for a late payment and tell me I’m a credit risk so I have to pay everything up now. Get ready, this is the mind-twisting part; the “late payment” is for the part of the deposit I didn’t send when he was re-quoting for 3 months.
So I was supposed to send them more funds during the time I had already paid 50% of the deposit but then found out the deposit amount owing wasn’t actually known anymore – when I was finding out that the window sizes and glass specs about to be ordered by Port were wrong despite them having had 4 months to check them, and that the quoted engineering costs might change, during the time that I didn’t receive a single payment invoice or reminder from Port or any emails from Port Guy requesting payment.
I was actually assuming they didn’t ask for payment then because they understood that might come across as slightly insane. I was instead thinking I might have to ask for a refund soon for the part of the payment I had sent because now the quote that took 4 months to confirm might not be valid and because the amount of mistakes was scary. As I said they did eventually fix everything at their cost and they stuck to the quote so I stayed with them. I saw Port Guy in person in Newcastle last month when I went to inspect the job and when to my great relief I saw the work had actually happened and looked good (apart from the last window position mistake) I told him then that I’d send the rest of the deposit. He said no worries, no issue. Suddenly now it’s an issue.
When that argument doesn’t seem to spin well Port Guy tries other tactics like saying the 20% payment on delivery was completely dependent on Port doing the delivery and if they don’t do it then it’s a change to the job and I have to pay everything up front. It wasn’t a condition, that’s not in the contract and to the contrary Port even organised a site visit by another transport company for me back in July 2016 so they knew then they probably weren’t doing the transport. I also asked Port Guy to itemise the delivery portion separately in their final quote/contract for that exact reason, in case Port didn’t do delivery due to site access limitations and the need for smaller trucks. He itemised it separately for me.
Then Port Guy sends me a quote from an independent transport company, but adds 30%-40% on top for Port as a gift I guess. I met with the transport guy Merv onsite last July and just last week again, and he’s been really helpful. Port Guy makes no apologies when I pick him up on inflating the quote. Meanwhile he is accusing me of having unethical motivations and saying the only reason I’m pushing for the 20% on delivery payment is because I don’t intend to pay, and he’s therefore protecting the company with this policy of paying 100% now. Seriously? Protecting Port from overly patient customers who put up with everything above and don’t sue you for costs due to delays, great idea.
Oh and one more thing. Before I accepted the quote Port Guy agreed in writing that he wouldn’t charge me for storage for 90 days after job completion. Now he’s threatening to charge me storage, and says his previous agreement by email doesn’t mean anything.
Does your head hurt yet? Mine sure does. I’ve was hoping for delivery in February, then last week, then this week, now next week. I can’t book drivers, cranes and notify the neighbours until Port confirms they will release the containers and honour our agreed contract terms. Port Guy says that all the current delays are my fault for not paying 100% as he demands. I have stopped talking to him.
I wait in hope for the higher ups at Port to come good on this and bring us all back to reality. I don’t do well in this alternative facts universe. Maybe this is good training for me to get used to it.
I was going to title this post, “Container Home Companies – Zombies and Shonksters” but I figured that might have legal implications so I didn’t.
Firstly, I am still waiting on the engineering, but once that is done I will then have my Construction Certificate issued. The reason this last step has taken so long is that I had hoped the engineering would be done by the company that builds my house. Instead, after crazy delays and encounters with crazy people, I have given up on that and I figure engineering is engineering and whoever builds it will have to follow the engineer’s specs for steelwork, so I’m getting it done as a standalone. That way I can finish off the paperwork required by council.
I will now share my experience to date with container home companies.
In a few cases, it has not been pleasant, in fact it’s been a comedy of errors which I am sure will be funny one day. Until then I might drink.
Please note, for any lawyers out there, this is just my personal experience and my personal opinion and does not necessarily reflect the experience that other people will have. No children or animals were harmed in the making of this post but the experience is not fictional and does represent real characters. Some of the language is creative but you have to have a sense of humour about these things, or otherwise curl up into the foetal position and wait for numbness to arrive.
Some of the behaviour by these companies is just frustrating, like the silent treatment and not ever answering emails or phone calls. Some of the behaviour is more serious, like being intentionally misleading; two cases of this behaviour were both followed by a wonderful karma-type twist of fate, with the companies going bust soon after. Other companies have been OK and just weren’t the right fit for my type of build, but might suit others.
I will start with the two bigguns, the ones that take your hopes, and your time and money, and dash them against the rocks with a gleeful and unapologetic lack of ethics.
Number 1 – Nova Deko Modular. They fibbed.
They are Number 1 in a you-wouldn’t-want-to-meet-them-in-a-dark-alley kind of way. This is the original company I had 6 months of phone meetings with, getting input from them on the structural stuff including their standard wall structure, what was possible and what wasn’t, and the standard inclusions they provided for internal fittings. My DA was then submitted based on their standard building specs.
I noticed during the design development stage that their prices were rapidly going up, and I was told they were phasing out of doing custom builds and mine would be one of the last. So I kept checking with them if they could still do my build, if the price would be the same etc, and I was reassured that it had all been recently checked with the factory and with the MD and they would stick to their commitment, at least with a very close price. I did a triple check on that before submitting my DA.
After my DA went in, the guy I had been dealing with, Matt Chernishov, left the company. Before he left, he said we needed to get my build into a final agreement, which I heartily agreed with. The agreement was not in place before Matt left, although until the very day he left he assured me it was close, and copying in the factory manager and the MD he said of the MD “You’re in good hands, Jim is a good man and will honour the original pricing the best he can.” Days after Matt left, Jim and the factory manager said they had no intention of building my house. They don’t do custom builds. No apology, no concern.
Soon after, the company closed its offices in Australia – they still operate overseas and you’ll find their website easily enough. If you want a simple build that is not a custom one then perhaps they are worth a try, but the lack of accountability and transparency within the company would bother me. If something goes wrong you might need an Italian friend to help sort it out. I have one of those but he’s not local unfortunately.
Jokes aside (memo to lawyers, that Sicilian threat idea was a joke) – a little honesty a little earlier would have saved me a lot of stress and time. Marks to Nova Deko Modular for customer service, zero.
Number 2 – Rubix Modular. They asked me to fly to QLD, then fibbed.
I only found these guys recently, it looked like they’d had lots of positive media coverage and seemed reasonably solid, although none of these companies have been operating for very long given container house building is pretty new in Australia. I couldn’t find many negative reviews at the time, just one and that’s not bad these days. They used to sell Nova Deko Modular builds, but had troubles with them (which I related to) so they were doing their own home models nowadays.
It took a while to get an answer to my initial inquiry, but after one phone call finally got through they were keen and helpful. A few written quotes later and it was clear they hadn’t quite got their heads around my BAL FZ custom build, and suggested I go up to QLD and sit down with them to sort out the details (at my own cost of course). I booked flights for Tuesday last week, hired a car and day tripped up there and had a good meeting with a team of four of them including builders and Joshua Fisk the MD. It all seemed pretty positive. They had to go and check out a couple of details, said they would get the engineering sorted ASAP, and were keen to do the build. They showed me around the factory where some basic builds using insulated panels were under way, and it was good to see the size of two containers joined together.
They did act; within two days they had obtained a quote for my engineering and promised a full quote for the build by Friday. The next week (ie a few days ago), there were no answers to my phone calls and emails and I found a google review from this last week showing they are going into receivership and had to be out of the premises by last Friday. They would have known that was coming, but invited me up to QLD to lie to me in person anyway.
Seriously, how do these people sleep at night?
Or is that when they normally come out to feed?
I had a lucky escape, by the recent google reviews popping up now there are some people who have lost money or are stuck with dodgy containers that leak in the rain.
Number 3 – Price and Speed Containers. Please leave a message at the tone…
This one started out hopeful, just like all the rest when I stop and think about it. It turns out that all the movies are right and hope is a powerful thing. Mix it with some eternal optimism, some stubbornness, and a basically trusting nature and belief that most people don’t lie all the time, and the damn stuff can keep you going on, and on, and on.
This company is Sydney-based and they do container modifications. Mostly pop-ups like cafes and bars plus some temporary single-unit housing stuff, but they had a design on their website that was very similar to my house with the 3 x forty foot container layout and they had done it as a pop-up bar. So I thought it was worth asking what that model would cost and if they could modify it to build mine.
I thought they might just do the containers themselves, for me to then organise the internal fit-out but on inquiry staff member Joe Caruana said they can do internal walls and insulation, electricals, plumbing etc. His replies were fast, generally within 24 hours and quite helpful including discussions on cladding, transport and installation of the build, and getting the engineering done. Until I sent him my plans that is; then I received one more email saying thanks and they’d get back to me with a full quote, then all communications ceased. I left quite a few phone messages and emails over a few weeks, the last ones just asking for confirmation they were no longer interested in my build. No response.
Obviously they are no longer interested but apparently don’t have enough courtesy for a simple call, text or email to let me know. I guess if you’re not interested in the first place ignoring an email isn’t so bad, a few of us are probably guilty of that, but to be in mid-discussion and suddenly disappear is bit weird… maybe something happened and the night feeders above got Joe or something.
This lot could be worth a go if you want container modifications only. They could be perfectly nice people, who just need to work on their communication skills.
Number 4 – Container Build Group. Preparing for the Zombie Apocalypse
This is also a company that has done a lot of single-unit temporary housing and general container modifications, and is now getting into finished container houses. They have a bunch of multiple-module house designs on their website, some of which look pretty good. Overall their sales person was helpful and I’ve been in touch with them twice now, last year as a general inquiry and just recently to see if they could do my build now that Rubix Modular has proven to be a waste of time.
The main issue here is the cost. I sent my plans through, they said they remembered the design from last time and within an hour or so sent me a brief four line quote for a very large sum of money, not including the BAL FZ extras of cladding, decking, roof or even the internal stairs. It did include the 6mm toughened glass double glazing. At a per square meter cost the quote was around $2300/m, which is on the luxury-finish side of a traditional house build (if you believe that stairs between floors are beyond a luxury item and are actually a pure indulgence that doesn’t belong in the main costing).
They use insulated panels for the inside walls, which are based on colour bond steel so to hang a picture you’d need a rivet gun, and to attach something like a TV you’d need to know where you want to put it (forever) so they can insert a wall stud. They said the standard flooring included in their builds was laminate, not hardwood, and not gold plating.
Why anyone would pay that sort of money and be restricted by the dimensions of a container home I have no idea.
On further discussion, they said several things:
That building with containers was not actually cheaper, that the advantage was structural soundness compared to other methods. They can stack 9 high and last for decades at sea, so they are much stronger that other build methods.
I’m not preparing for a zombie apocalypse so would be happy with a building that complies with BCA, I believe they tend to stand up OK for quite some time. It seems a bit crazy to build with containers based on that rationale alone, unless you’re in an earthquake zone or something. In my opinion the main attraction of this build method is that the structure is already there, in theory making it cheaper to build.
They make their money out of the internal fit-out. No kidding. I asked would they sit down and discuss different internal options to save on the budget? They said if I agreed to that price they would be happy to discuss it more. Huh?
Would they be interested in just doing the container modifications not the internal fit-out? No not really, they want a good finish inside that is done to their own specs for the photos, to help them build up a good reputation. I’m not quite sure how steel panel internal walls and plastic floors fit with that, but each to their own.
They did eventually say if I sent through all my other quotes they might try to come close, or I could make an offer and wait and see. They were very interested in who else was quoting and how much. Given they didn’t even give me an itemised quote to work from (so that I’m not quite sure what I get for that large amount of money), I’m a bit reluctant to give them all that information on the competition as it doesn’t seem fair.
They also said they do a lot of single-unit basic stuff, and at the other end of the scale they have some very big multiple-module jobs on with 11 containers or more, but nothing much in between and no factory space at the moment. They said it’s possible the builder over quoted me because he’s not really interested, and from my experience he wouldn’t be the first to do that.
So if you want a single-module house, or have millions to spend on a massive build and don’t care about the per square meter cost but want something that would survive a zombie apocalypse on land or at sea, give them a go. Or maybe if factory space frees up later they might be interested, it could just be bad timing.
Number 5 – Cube Modular, the strong silent types
Based in Western Australia, I don’t have much info on these guys. To be fair to them it looks like they might only build their own designs and not do custom builds. I sent them an inquiry about a custom build, no response.
Others – oh please let there be others…
There are two more companies I am either in discussions with or about to contact again – Container Domain Designs and Port Containers. I’ll keep you posted.
Happy Anniversary to me! As of last month this blog passed the one year mark. On the one hand that is a bit depressing since I naively thought the build would be done and dusted within 6 months, but on the other hand when I look at what was involved in the whole process it’s not that bad. At the start I didn’t realise that container houses in flame zones were as rare as hen’s teeth and unicorns, so half of that time was house design and research into wall structure and other bits to comply with BAL FZ, the other half was DA and Council.
I decided not to stress over this build some time ago, as I have a day job that can provide as much stress as I would like if I need some, and the build process is creative and it’s supposed to be fun. I have started camping on my block most weekends and have begun to tidy up the garden and make some space for the house, and have also been doing some lovely hikes in the mountains and getting all inspired to live up there again. Hence the gap in blog posts.
I have had the engineering done for the foundations, and am currently chasing up the structural engineering for the house itself. Then my CC will be issued. Nope, that’s not a flavoured corn chip, it’s a Construction Certificate.
I am trying to get fixed quotes for the house itself then for the onsite works including the external cladding, but most trades disappeared over January and at least half of February so it’s been slow progress so far this year. Building seems to be the one industry where you ask for a quote on something and have to spend a minimum of 3 to 4 weeks chasing it up, like people don’t actually want the work. I guess if you’re out there building stuff you’re not on the computer doing quotes, so I just have to build that sort of thing into the timeline. The house itself should take about 3 months to build, not including on-site modifications.
In the meantime, I’ve been doing some interior design and layouts just to double check that I can fit things like a sofa into my little container house. It is hard to visual the size of the space so I’ve been digging up pictures that show the inside of two containers joined together.
I think the width of the space above looks pretty good. My living area will have one glass wall made of glass doors down the length of it; the pic below has two walls of glass but you can see what a difference the extra light makes to the space. Half of my ceiling in the living area will be double height as well, adding even more sense of space.
The layout of my place will be a bit cosier given it’s cold climate, and it includes a wet-back wood fuel stove for heating the house and boosting my hot water in winter.
Then sometimes I get a bit radical and think of alternatives to the traditional lounge/dining, like this below. At the end of work days when I sit at a desk, I either end up sitting on the floor or on the couch with my feet up, and I like the casual feel of these floor seating ideas below.. although I would add a lounge chair or two for older visitors whose knees might not be up to floor seating..
My colour theme will be natural – I am aiming for “things of stone and wood meets the hobbit”, if the hobbit went a bit tribal but liked metallic ceilings. Not minimalist, I don’t live tidily enough for that and I like books and timber feature walls.
It has been a while since my house design was posted, so here it is again but without any external colours added yet. The idea of the chimney/flue appearing on the back of the deck is to give out a bit of warmth in winter, something to huddle around and take in the fresh mountain air.
That’s it for now, if no news is good news then I should be the happiest person on the planet.